Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

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Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

Duggerman
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I asked this question on twitter recently and no one could come up with anything realistic. It's definitely a short list of men that could beat this monster. Can you come up with at least 5? Good luck, and present your reasoning. (Obviously, Ali is omitted because he succeeded in this task).

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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

Phantom Punch
If we're omitting Ali, then I say Liston, Vitali, Tyson and Holyfield.
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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

The Golden Jet
Phantom Punch wrote
If we're omitting Ali, then I say Liston, Vitali, Tyson and Holyfield.
Whoa. I disagree with some of your picks. I'll just start with Holyfield, who gave his ALL against the OLD Foreman and couldn't drop him and didn't dominate the way a younger prime champion should have. You really think a man that struggles with the OLD Foreman somehow beats the YOUNG Foreman?
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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

Duggerman
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The Golden Jet wrote
Phantom Punch wrote
If we're omitting Ali, then I say Liston, Vitali, Tyson and Holyfield.
Whoa. I disagree with some of your picks. I'll just start with Holyfield, who gave his ALL against the OLD Foreman and couldn't drop him and didn't dominate the way a younger prime champion should have. You really think a man that struggles with the OLD Foreman somehow beats the YOUNG Foreman?
I disagree about Holyfield for the same reasons, especially knowing that Holyfield would get too much courage and try to trade with a peak Foreman. Great chin or not, prime Foreman would hurt him worse than Bowe did. Hell, OLD Foreman had Evander thinking all of his teeth were knocked out with one punch.

Aside from Ali, I am only confident in Lewis and Holmes beating peak Foreman. Larry had the jab to keep Foreman off balance and the chin to withstand his blows. If Larry could survive Shavers, then I don't see why he couldn't survive Foreman's blows either. Furthermore, Larry would still be fresh in the later rounds when Foreman starts to tire and he'd box the crap out of him.

As for Lewis, he had just the punch Foreman was suspect to.....the right hand. Each time Foreman was dropped, it was by a right hand. Add to this the fact that Lewis had a good jab and great boxing ability. I think he'd be cautious, using his boxing skill to keep Foreman in check and then landing the power shots at the right time. Lewis' chin definitely let him down more than once, but when he was prepared and focused he was rarely hurt.

Vitali and Joe Louis have a chance against prime Foreman but I don't back them the way I do Holmes and Lewis.
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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

Will69
Prime Foreman was more than the sum of his parts.  Although most people agree that Foreman 2.0 was better skilled, I think prime Foreman would destroy the opponents that old George did not.  Morrison would not defeat a prime George.  No way.  Briggs too wouldn't get the nod (he would go toe-to-toe with George and end up like he did against Lewis when he tired).  Back to the original question:

I also agree that Holyfield would likely not make the list, due to all the previously mentioned arguments.

Holmes is a bit of a wild card for me.  He never had great competition during his prime to fully prove himself.  I also don't know if his chin is tested to be diamond-strength like Ali's.  But he did overcome Shavers twice, so one could argue that he did have the whiskers to hold up.  I guess although Holmes had great tools and ability on his resume,  I somehow think a monster like a prime Foreman would cut the ring and get Larry in too many dangerous positions.  Larry wouldn't be as inclined to spin away or lean out of danger like Ali did.  Larry's left jab would save him a few times, but in 12 rounds he absolutely would be tagged and tagged hard repeatedly.  Larry's best chance is to hope Foreman tired early.

Lewis and the Klits have the best odds of defeating a prime Foreman.  Their size, strength and skill could get the job done, but each one also fights a bit differently, and with each one, it's a dangerous fight. Wlad's great defense could see him through.  Lewis, like Wlad, had great timing when he was focused, and could land the heavy right at the right time.  Vitali was more of a brawler, which would be risky for both of them.

Also, Sonny Liston is a real threat too.  Sonny taught Foreman some of his style, so he would know how to engage with him effectively.  They did train and spar together, and Liston, as an old man, actually took some of Foreman's hard shots and pushed Foreman around.    Imagine a ferocious, prime Sonny in there.
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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

The Golden Jet
Will69 wrote
Prime Foreman was more than the sum of his parts.  Although most people agree that Foreman 2.0 was better skilled, I think prime Foreman would destroy the opponents that old George did not.  Morrison would not defeat a prime George.  No way.  Briggs too wouldn't get the nod (he would go toe-to-toe with George and end up like he did against Lewis when he tired).  Back to the original question:

I also agree that Holyfield would likely not make the list, due to all the previously mentioned arguments.

Holmes is a bit of a wild card for me.  He never had great competition during his prime to fully prove himself.  I also don't know if his chin is tested to be diamond-strength like Ali's.  But he did overcome Shavers twice, so one could argue that he did have the whiskers to hold up.  I guess although Holmes had great tools and ability on his resume,  I somehow think a monster like a prime Foreman would cut the ring and get Larry in too many dangerous positions.  Larry wouldn't be as inclined to spin away or lean out of danger like Ali did.  Larry's left jab would save him a few times, but in 12 rounds he absolutely would be tagged and tagged hard repeatedly.  Larry's best chance is to hope Foreman tired early.

Lewis and the Klits have the best odds of defeating a prime Foreman.  Their size, strength and skill could get the job done, but each one also fights a bit differently, and with each one, it's a dangerous fight. Wlad's great defense could see him through.  Lewis, like Wlad, had great timing when he was focused, and could land the heavy right at the right time.  Vitali was more of a brawler, which would be risky for both of them.

Also, Sonny Liston is a real threat too.  Sonny taught Foreman some of his style, so he would know how to engage with him effectively.  They did train and spar together, and Liston, as an old man, actually took some of Foreman's hard shots and pushed Foreman around.    Imagine a ferocious, prime Sonny in there.
No Joe Louis?
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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

Brooklyn's Finest
In reply to this post by Duggerman
I can't name five. But Tyson is among the few. Trust me. He'd get it done.
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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

redfeng007
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Vitali already have trouble fighting Corrie Sanders, whom doesn't even hit as hard as George Foreman.



He did beat Sanders by outboxing him.

This will depend what kind of fight Vitali choose to fight young George Foreman. No way he wants to slug with GF. Sanders already makes Vitali run for his life in the ring...

https://youtu.be/thKRtRbXbpo

Vitali can be hurt. It is not entirely Iron Chin.


GF can hurt Joe Louis at anytime.

The thing is, once prime Joe Louis got hurt, he will fire up and fight back even harder.

Joe Louis will take one punishment and give back 2 punishments if he is pissed off.

Tony Galento, James Braddock, Buddy Baer and Max Baer took relentless attacks from Joe Louis once they hurt him.

Joe Louis beat them up so badly face to face in return.

Only fighters who choose to run or stand too closely, may take off the heat from Joe Louis's counter attacks.

GF will not stand and slug with Joe Louis if he wants a better fighting chance. Fight with Joe Louis from a distance, is better for him.

GF already said that Joe Louis has too many combination to beat him.
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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

Duggerman
Administrator
^^Vitali and Louis are two that I could see upsetting Foreman, but I could just as easily see them getting gunned down by Foreman, too.

Regarding Louis, he'd have to land the big guns first. He certainly had the skill, crushing power and speed to do so. If he hopped on George right away it'd be a short fight maybe.

But on the other hand, Louis shouldn't let himself get caught by a barrage of punches from Foreman either. Louis could take a punch, even withstanding bombs from Baer and Galento. But let's not forget he was floored by light heavyweights like Braddock, Schmeling, Walcott, etc. These guys could punch, but not on a Foreman level. So George has a puncher's chance. Joe would have to land the jab and brutal combinations early.

Vitali had the size, awkwardness and toughness to potentially stand up to Foreman. George would actually be the smaller man in the ring here, and Vitali was incredibly awkward to fight. Vitali also had good stamina - Foreman famously did not.

Therefore I could see Vitali skillfully and awkwardly making Foreman look bad for many rounds here en route to a decision or possible late TKO. But at the same time, Vitali never fought anyone like George. We'd have to see how he'd react when George pounces right on him. Vitali was in never such a situation with such a big powerful beast.
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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

Rosco
I don't see Holmes beating Foreman for two reasons.

1) If they fought in '76 or '77, Holmes was not yet prime. Foreman would kill him then.

2) Even if they both fought on their best nights, Holmes could not "out-box" George. George cut the ring well as he came after you. Ali did not "out-box" George, he surprised him by going toe to toe in round 1 and then retreated to the ropes. Ali wasn't confident enough to stand there and try to box Foreman because eventually George is going to land, and land BIG.

If Foreman had beat Ali in Zaire, he may just well have been the GOAT.
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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

It's Dale
Rosco wrote

If Foreman had beat Ali in Zaire, he may just well have been the GOAT.
You may be correct about that.
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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

Duggerman
Administrator
In reply to this post by Rosco
Rosco wrote
I don't see Holmes beating Foreman for two reasons.

1) If they fought in '76 or '77, Holmes was not yet prime. Foreman would kill him then.

2) Even if they both fought on their best nights, Holmes could not "out-box" George. George cut the ring well as he came after you. Ali did not "out-box" George, he surprised him by going toe to toe in round 1 and then retreated to the ropes. Ali wasn't confident enough to stand there and try to box Foreman because eventually George is going to land, and land BIG.

If Foreman had beat Ali in Zaire, he may just well have been the GOAT.
Regarding your first point - George was not himself after Zaire. He was afraid to pull the trigger and paranoid about losing his stamina. This is how Jimmy Young beat him. If Jimmy Young pulled it off, Larry would only do it better.

One of the key differences between Ali and Holmes was that while both were "stick and move" fighters, Ali's mobility was his best weapon. For Holmes, it was the jab.

Ali had lost some foot speed by 1974, so he had to come up with other tricks to beat Foreman. If he tried to "dance," there'd only be a matter of time before George would catch and destroy him. Ali knew that.

Holmes had the jab to keep George off balance. That constant jab being flicked in his face would make it a discouraging night for George. And although Holmes was not as fast as Ali, he was fast enough to escape danger if George got near him. This one is Larry all the way.

Foreman is one of the best of all time and I can see why you say he' d be the GOAT if he'd knocked out Ali. BUT I pick Louis and Holmes to beat peak Foreman. (I'm more confident in Holmes, though).
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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

Rosco
George's showing versus Young was due completely to the mind game Ali played on him. Young would have never lasted three rounds with the Foreman of 1972-74. Larry Holmes was tough but he'd get mowed down just the same.
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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

Zorro
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Duggerman wrote
I asked this question on twitter recently and no one could come up with anything realistic. It's definitely a short list of men that could beat this monster. Can you come up with at least 5? Good luck, and present your reasoning. (Obviously, Ali is omitted because he succeeded in this task).









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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

Evan Fields
I'm not comfortable picking Louis to beat George. Knocking out Galento, Baer and Carnera is nothing like fighting 1973-74 George Foreman in beast mode. Joe Louis was an impressive specimen and dominating heavyweight champion for his era but George was in a whole 'nother league. I don't care how humble George tries to act on Twitter lately; he would knock out Joe Louis and many other greats.
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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

The Golden Jet
In reply to this post by Zorro
George would knock them dreads out of Lennox's head.
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Re: Name 5 heavyweights who could beat PEAK George Foreman (1973-74)

Urban Legend
Just Ali and Louis.