Why didnt Frazier and Liston ever fight in the '60s?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
13 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Why didnt Frazier and Liston ever fight in the '60s?

Left Hook From Hell...
Who ducked who?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why didnt Frazier and Liston ever fight in the '60s?

Duggerman
Administrator
I've heard it going both ways.  Sonny was doing well after the losses to Ali. Frazier could have given him a title shot. But you know what? At that time, with Joe at his absolute peak and Liston being over 40 years old, Joe would have likely crushed him.

If they fought, Sonny would have been Joe's biggest victory right under Ali.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why didnt Frazier and Liston ever fight in the '60s?

Duggerman
Administrator
^^I kind of change my mind here. Liston may have been old but he still hit plenty hard and Joe was always vulnerable to sluggers, especially early in the fight. Joe should still be the favorite maybe, primarily because of his youth and his hand speed, but Sonny still has a puncher's chance and could hurt Joe just as easy as Joe tries to bull his way in.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why didnt Frazier and Liston ever fight in the '60s?

Phantom Punch
Frazier ducked Sonny. Sonny deserved a title shot considering he had been champion before and was the top dawg in the heavyweight division for so long. I figure Joe and Yancy figured that Sonny was all wrong stylewise for Joe. If Joe really wanted to defend the crown against Sonny, he certainly could have.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why didnt Frazier and Liston ever fight in the '60s?

Urban Legend
In reply to this post by Left Hook From Hell...
It's simple. Joe ducked The Big Bear. Sonny was still capable of beating anyone whose name was not Muhammad Ali.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why didnt Frazier and Liston ever fight in the '60s?

It's Dale
I remember this period and it's amazing how Sonny wasn't given a second thought after the Ali defeats. No one at the time cared to see Liston fight Frazier. He was viewed as a washed up has-been after Ali despite winning most of his fights after that.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why didnt Frazier and Liston ever fight in the '60s?

Friday The 13th...
This is a good question. Also, why was Sonny not even a participant in the heavyweight title tournament?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why didnt Frazier and Liston ever fight in the '60s?

Duggerman
Administrator
Friday The 13th... wrote
 Also, why was Sonny not even a participant in the heavyweight title tournament?
He should have been in. I have no idea why he wasn't included. Joe Frazier purposely boycotted the tournament and put himself in position to fight the winner, and he promptly knocked Jimmy Ellis' head off to win the undisputed title.

Here's a another question- if Sonny had fought in the tournament, do you think he would have won? If he had, then he'd have no choice but to fight Frazier.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why didnt Frazier and Liston ever fight in the '60s?

Rosco
Duggerman wrote
 if Sonny had fought in the tournament, do you think he would have won? If he had, then he'd have no choice but to fight Frazier.
I like where this thread is going.

The tournament guys were...

Floyd Patterson
Ernie Terrell,
Oscar Bonevena,
Thad Spencer,
Jimmy Ellis,
Jerry Quarry,
Karl Mildenberger
Leotis Martin

Considering Leotis Martin knocked out Sonny when they fought years later, I'd say that's one loss he'd have. So no, he doesn't win.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why didnt Frazier and Liston ever fight in the '60s?

Zorro
In reply to this post by Friday The 13th...
Friday The 13th... wrote
This is a good question. Also, why was Sonny not even a participant in the heavyweight title tournament?
He was suspended by the WBA and banned by other commissions, unranked by Ring magazine and the WBA, he hadn't beaten a rated contender in roughly four years, and he'd spent the last couple years fighting in semi-obscurity in Scandinavia against non-descript opponents. Not to mention his stock plummetted bigtime after the phantom punch fight.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why didnt Frazier and Liston ever fight in the '60s?

Brooklyn's Finest
In reply to this post by Rosco
These are some real theories I'd never thought about.

Sonny would not have won the tournament. You could argue that the slightly younger Liston of those tournament years may have done better with Leotis Martin. But I wouldn't bet my house on that. What would a Liston who was three years younger do different? He was already ancient facing Leotis either way.
In any case I would pick Leotis and Earnie Terrell to beat Liston for sure at that time. Jimmy Ellis would put up a good fight for maybe a round or two before Liston catches him good.

Regarding Liston and Frazier fighting in the late '60s, Liston always hit hard but he lacked something after the losses to Ali. I don't think he'd be aggressive enough and give Frazier enough time to find his rhythm and then beat the tar out of him.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why didnt Frazier and Liston ever fight in the '60s?

Evolution
If Sonny really wanted to fight in that tournament or get a title match with Joe Frazier, he could have. Boxing politics may have played a small part, but we never saw Sonny lobbying for any of these opportunities, did we?

It took him a while to get over the ghost of the Ali losses, plus he was heavily involved with the seedy underworld at the time. If he'd become champion again, the mob would have had even more influence over him. Sonny and his wife Geraldine did not want that. Laying low for those years was smart and may have extended his life.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Why didnt Frazier and Liston ever fight in the '60s?

Joe Kingman
In reply to this post by Left Hook From Hell...
Weren’t they friends? I heard Joe snapped at a stupid reporter at Sonny’s funeral asked him if he could ever beat Sonny.

I pick Sonny to beat Joe even with his advancing age during the late 60s. Joe would be right in front of Sonny and that isn’t good.

But Sonny better not take Joe lightly because if the fight goes the distance Joe would get stronger and faster and Sonny would get knocked cold just like he did against Leotis Martin.

-Joe Kingman